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Reihenfolge der Firewall Rules

Wolfgang Ritter1

Hallo

Ich habe immer wieder Verständigungsprobleme mit einzelnen Beschreibungen und Aussagen. Ich versuche es jetzt mit kleinen einzelnen Schritten. Ich hoffe Ihr seit nicht beleidigt, aber meine Erkenntnis ist, sobald es etwas komplizierter wird bleibt die Anfrage unbeantwortet hängen.

Gemäss Beschreibung gilt die Bottom Down Regel für die FW Rules. Aber es gibt ja jetzt auch die Gruppierungsmöglichkeit und was passiert dann? Wenn ich meine zweitletzte Regel einer Gruppe zuordne dann wird sie theoretisch in der Reihenfolge verschoben. Alle Gruppen werden bildlich an erster Stelle oder wenn ich es mit Bottom Down veranschauliche an eine Top Position gesetzt.

Kann mir jemand dies genauer erklären. Mein FW Regeln angehängt.

Danke

Wolfgang



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  • 0

    Hi  

    Rule groups don't determine rule priority. The firewall evaluates rules from top to bottom.Please find the below URL and snapshot for reference.

    http://docs.sophos.com/nsg/sophos-firewall/17.5/Help/en-us/webhelp/onlinehelp/nsg/sfos/concepts/SecurityPolicyManage.html




  • 0 in reply to Vishal_R

    Thanks Vishal

    I know the rules information in the documentation. There is written:

    You can update existing firewall rules or add new firewall rules. You can change the rule position of custom firewall rules in the rule table. The firewall evaluates rules from top to bottom.

    • To add a firewall rule, select the protocol IPv4 or IPv6 and click + Add firewall rule. Select User/Network rule or Business application rule.

    and

    Note: Rule groups don't determine rule priority. The firewall evaluates rules from top to bottom.

    My screenshoot again:

    Now please explain me the difference between top to bottom according descriptio and top to bottom of the screenshoot. From my point of view the language is clear.

    Thanks
    Wolfgang

  • 0 in reply to Wolfgang Ritter1

    I am still not sure, how there is a difference? 

    Basically the XG will start on the Top and look for a matching Firewall rule.

    XG uses Source IP; Destination IP and Service. 

    Source IP can be replaced by a User, which is basically is a IP. 

    So: User, Destination IP and Service. 

     

    Those are the matching criteria. And XG will look for a matching Rule, starting from the Top Rule in the first group. 

     

    Grouping will be "just a management method". It will not redesign the rule order. 

     

    You are correct - putting / attaching a firewall rule into a group will / could change the order of your firewall rule set. 

     

    XG will start with Group on Top, run through the whole group, existing the group and check the next group / firewall rule. Basically it is just for bigger setups to have a better overview. 

     

    Most customers start to group up zone based. 

    For example: You have Zone LAN, Zone Server. 

    They create a Group LAN, with all Source Zone Firewall Groups. Create a new Group Server, with all Rules attached to this Zone.

    Then create a Group DNAT, WAF etc. Just to group them.

    Within the groups, they sort / order the firewall with most explicit first: Admin to WAN allow all. User to WAN restrictive access. etc. 

  • +1 in reply to LuCar Toni

    Hi Toni

    Thank you, your last part was the information which i want to know.

    I think if Sophos write that the group will not change the rule order, that this information is not correct.
    The rule order is from top to bottom. But if i move a rule to any group the rule order can get changed.

    In my specific case (i will reference to the ID), it will start with 6, 8, 7, 1, 5 and the last 9.

    If i move the rule 9 e.g. to Group "Traffic to WAN" the rule order will change to 6, 8, 9, 7, 1 and the last 5.

    In this case a rule group isn't anymore just container for grouping of similar rules, it also changes the rules order if i add one to the group.

    I just checked also the documentation in English and German and there is written that a firewall group doesn't change the rule order.

    De facto that's wrong. I can move the rule group and all rules are new ordered. If i place a rule on the second last order and i think that i will keep all rules for the sales team together (it's a kind of organisation), i will change the rule order.

    But on the end I know how it works correctly and i know also that the description in manual isn't correct, the more nice expression is not complet. I will meet a Sophos Manager beginning of December. Will discuss this with him.

    Thanks a lot
    Wolfgang

Reply
  • +1 in reply to LuCar Toni

    Hi Toni

    Thank you, your last part was the information which i want to know.

    I think if Sophos write that the group will not change the rule order, that this information is not correct.
    The rule order is from top to bottom. But if i move a rule to any group the rule order can get changed.

    In my specific case (i will reference to the ID), it will start with 6, 8, 7, 1, 5 and the last 9.

    If i move the rule 9 e.g. to Group "Traffic to WAN" the rule order will change to 6, 8, 9, 7, 1 and the last 5.

    In this case a rule group isn't anymore just container for grouping of similar rules, it also changes the rules order if i add one to the group.

    I just checked also the documentation in English and German and there is written that a firewall group doesn't change the rule order.

    De facto that's wrong. I can move the rule group and all rules are new ordered. If i place a rule on the second last order and i think that i will keep all rules for the sales team together (it's a kind of organisation), i will change the rule order.

    But on the end I know how it works correctly and i know also that the description in manual isn't correct, the more nice expression is not complet. I will meet a Sophos Manager beginning of December. Will discuss this with him.

    Thanks a lot
    Wolfgang

Children
  • 0 in reply to Wolfgang Ritter1

    I guess, it is partial true, that the Group will not change the rule order.

    Because basically if you do not "move" the Firewall Rule, instead simply put them into Groups, the group will not change the order at all. 

     

    For Example:

    Rule 1 

    Rule 2 

    Rule 3

    Rule 4

     

    If you now put a Group around Rule 1,2,3, it will not change the order.

     

    Rule 1 Group 1

    Rule 2 Group 1

    Rule 3 Group 1

    Rule 4

     

    So basically the Group is just a administration overview, to have a better visibility over the rule set.

     

    If you now take Rule 4 and move them above the Group1, you will of course change the rule Order.

    If you pick up Rule 4 into Group 1, nothing will change. 

    If you move Rule 4 in Group 1 to Place between 1/2, it will change the Order. 

     

    The Note in your example simply show, that XG will no pickup Groups in any "special" reason.

     

    There are products, which run Groups first, then single firewall. Or some products run standalone firewalls first, because they have another priority. 

     

    Take a look at the "new" Online help for V18.

    http://docs.sophos.com/nsg/sophos-firewall/18.0/Help/en-us/webhelp/onlinehelp/nsg/sfos/concepts/FirewallRules.html

    Do you find an issue there? Open a thread in the EAP Community: This will be fixed in the next release. 

    https://community.sophos.com/products/xg-firewall/sfos-eap/sfos-v18-early-access-program/

     

     

     

    To get back to your example: If you move Firewall Rule 9 into Traffic to WAN, it will of course change the firewall order in the first place. Its like moving firewall Rule 9 above rule 3. Thats what you are doing, if you moving it to the group Traffic to WAN. (Same process). 

    If you put Rule 3 into Traffic to WAN, nothing will change in terms of order. 


    Hope thats clear. 

  • 0 in reply to LuCar Toni

    I think this matters depending how the rules and groups are designed.


    I usually design groups depending on zones (e.g. LAN to WAN). I them put all rules that go from LAN to WAN in this group.

     

    There might be other groupings which could lead to some unexpected behavior as rules that belong technically together are spread between groups and outside groups.

     

    You also need to put  the more specific rule above the less specific. Otherwise it won't match.

     

    So the rules are processed from the top to the bottom. Point.

  • 0 in reply to LuCar Toni

    Hi Toni

    it's clear. We discuss at a higher level of linguistic expression, in this case.

    You can say and that's 100% true, Sophos Firewall has a rule order from top to bottom (always). But there is a UI, now. A UI can change a lot, if i get a graphical view of this information.

    A rule group isn't just a container to collect similar rules. A rule group defines definitivly a rule order. A rule group has on a UI the same features for moving and placing within all listed rules.

    You are correct if i add a rule without a group to a group it changes mostly the rule order (exceptions prove the rule).

    If i change the order of a rule group within the UI i change also the rules order of the linked rules.

    In this case you can't say the rule group doesn't change the rule order.

    I think it's one of typical errors if the firewall was administrated with CLI and changed to a graphical UI.

    8037.Sample Rules - Rule Groups.pdf

    At the moment i just try to understand how many features are really working and by a few explanations i have problems to understand why that so is. The rule order is clear for me and i think i will come up with more questions. If my DNS server on LAN will make automatic reverse lookup entries from LAN and RED network, but that's for another thread.

    Anyway thanks
    Wolfgang