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I really want to like this product, but...

psykix

If I'd purchased this for deployment in my place of work, then I'd be looking for a refund.

1) The webfilter issues are a show stopper. I wanted to use the webfilter to enable malware/antivirus scanning on the gateway. As soon as I enable the webfilter, then Youtube, Netflix, and the kids Amazon Fire TV boxes are all rendered useless. This has been posted about several times, and there is no response.

2) My connections shows interface status up, gateway down, but it's not down. I've tried with a straight and also a crossover cable - no difference. It's working so why is it saying it is down? Must be a bug.

3) How on earth do you get the performance indicator to stay green? I'm running it on ESXi 6 and have given the box 2 cores (and even tried 4) and 6Gb of RAM. Still it's flagging performance as orange.

4) Can't get email notifications to work using my normal Microsoft Exchange hosted server. Notifications from other applications BEHIND the Sophos XG firewall work, so why don't they work from Sophos itself?

5) Support is pretty much non-existent. It just seems to consist of users helping users, and at the moment it's like the blind leading the blind - none of us can figure the product out properly and most of us are not exactly networking novices. That should be telling you something about your product.

Rant over.



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  • 0
    I'll combine your first comment with your #5 first - if you had bought this for your workplace, you'd likely be entitled to support. Support wouldn't be non-existent, and they'd work with you through these issues. I'm working with their support engineers now on a few bugs, and they're excellent. How they should be supporting other folks - like forum folks - that aren't paying XG customers yet - that's a different discussion. I think their involvement here could (should?) be better... especially since they seem to want people to use the free home version... and I think it will get better... Support just got handed a new product, too, so they are working to understand this new XG product as well. Give it a little time.

    Now - 1) webfilter issues. Just about any webfilter with HTTPS filtering is going to break something like netflix and amazon fire. I enabled Watchguard's version of https filtering at my house - had very similar issues. I came from and am certified in the watchguard product, so I had a spare of their smaller boxes lying around to test. Anyway - anything that tried to validate SSL certificates - and for which installing new certificates was nearly impossible - generally had major issues. Amazon Kindle e-readers would freak as well. This is a known issue with just about any deep packet inspection https filter, and the only way resolve that is to install the ca certificate from the firewall onto the end devices - or except the traffic from the https filter. The XG device actually makes it fairly easy to except certain traffic from HTTPS inspection. Entire categories can be exempt via the policy, and when ssl certificates for those sites are detected, the traffic is not intercepted and monkeyed with, or individual IP addresses can be exempt as well. I've found it works acceptably well. I have had to add in a few *special* exemptions - logmein rescue, for example, certain sites using websockets in an odd way, that sort of thing - but overall, it is working like an absolute champ.

    2) can the gateway be pinged? The xg relies on pings - not whether traffic is passing through the interface - to determine the status of the gateway, I believe. I think I remember that from the XG certification course.... Maybe that was only multi-wan was setup...

    3) What's the load average look like on the performance screen?

    4) Do a packet capture on the smtp traffic to see what the SMTP conversation looks like. Could be any NUMBER of things - including user error (hey, it happens... even on a stupid smtp connection. )
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    I would like to thank you for taking the time try and explain things to us. I do understand this is a new product in fact its very much v1 as has been said many times in the beta program when I was a part of it that said communication from Sophos even in the beta program was none existent and when a company is asking for are help in testing and asking for our feedback and it falls a dead ears with no response that's never a good thing.

    As for Netflix not working on mobile devices this is something going back to UTM9.x at least in UTM9 we could fix it with some Regex entries and move on with our lives without completely disabling web filter and HTTP scanning, Its not just when HTTPS scanning is enabled its when plane HTTP scanning us used. No matter what we do with different combinations if you have ANY of the following 3 things active it breaks Netflix on mobile devices

    web filter
    HTTP Scanning
    HTTPS Scanning
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray

    My pleasure, sir.

    Netflix on a mobile device behind XG with HTTPS filtering on.... challenge accepted. I'll be back behind the device tomorrow... I'll let you know how it goes.

    I found a thread talking about what exemptions to add for UTM9 for Netflix. I'll be doing something to the effect of this:

    Protection > Web Protection > Web Categories
    Create a new category - Known good/Bypass filter (or something like that)

    Add sites/keywords there, per the article I found re the utm. Probably something like
    nflximg.com
    nflxvideo.net
    vo.llnwd.net
    netflix.com

    then

    Protection > Web Protection > Web Content Filter
    Under HTTPS exceptions
    Add. Type a name.
    Under Bypass - add new item - add the category just created. Click save.

    I'll probably stop and test it there - but if necessary, I'll also add regex rules under HTTP Scanning Rules similar to:
    ^https?://[A-Za-z0-9.-]*netflix-*.vo.llnwd.net/
    ^https?://[A-Za-z0-9.-]*nflximg.com/
    ^https?://[A-Za-z0-9.-]*nflxvideo.net/
    ^https?://[A-Za-z0-9.-]*netflix.com/

    I have seen a few posts griping about regex not working properly - so I may run into that - but this is what I plan to try - and we'll see what it does.

    I would like to see regex and category-based scanning exemptions moved into either the global policies list or Web Filter Policies - because then I could apply user-based filtering to the exemptions - for example - clientless users get to bypass filtering on netflix, youtube, and facebook (mobile facebook breaks HORRIBLY) but keep it for the desktop/laptop folks for which certificates could be easily imported. Joys of feature requests....

  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    You go ChavousCamp, We are counting on you to get Netflix working. I am not sure what thread you where talking about for the Regex exemptions but have a look at Drashnas blog for a great list regex entries for many things that work great in UTM9-
    drashna.net/.../
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray
    That's a better one than the one I found. Mine was an old forum post here: www.astaro.org/.../50903-exception-rule-netflix-streaming.html

    Drashna's is much more thorough. I'll look through his when I get ready to do this.
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    My pleasure. The old Sophos forums are a bit of a mess when it comes to all the suggestions regarding Netflix not working. Chris the owner of Drashna blog belongs to one of the forums that i am pretty active in called
    homeservershow.com and I must say he does great work, You can trust that everything you read on that blog I sent you has been tested and works. If you get this working your going to make a lot of peaple very happy this holliday season, myself included.

    If you get a chance have a look at the frustration about the new XG Firewall regarding Netflix not working as well as other things. See the link below to a thread I started on the HSS, My forum name is itGeeks
    homeservershow.com/.../index.php
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray
    Ok, so I won't say "challenge completed" yet - because I cheated to get it working... still working on the webfilter side, but here is one SURE-FIRE way to get it to work while keeping filtering on for the majority of users...

    So we'll say... CHALLENGE PENDING for now - and use this to get it working!

    1) Create a clientless users group
    Objects > Identity > Groups
    Add.
    Enter a group name.
    Group Type: Clientless
    Quarantine Digest: Disable
    Save.

    2) Create Clientless users for each exempt device.
    Objects > Identity > Clientless Users
    Add (or add range, if they are in a specific range)
    Enter a username - something descriptive for the device (ex: ccamp-iphone)
    IP Address: the internal ip address
    Group: The clientless group you created in step 1
    Name: Some name. Descriptive. "My Iphone"
    Email: fake an email address. Next version won't require this.
    Description: More useless description info. Not required.

    Click the plus sign if you need to add additional devices.

    Click save.

    3) Create security policy
    Security Policies
    Click on your HTTPS filter rule, click the plus sign, click "Above (User/Network Rule)"
    About this rule---
    Name: Allow Clientless to Bypass Filter
    Identity---
    Match Rule based on user identity: On
    User or Groups: Clientless Group created in step 1
    Source---
    Zone: Lan
    Networks: Any
    Services: HTTP,HTTPS, others if you need them, but these suffice for this walkthrough
    Destination---
    Zone: WAN
    Networks: Any
    Malware Scanning---
    Scan FTP OFF
    Scan HTTP OFF
    Decrypt & Scan HTTPS OFF

    Save.

    This bypasses the specific clientless devices you created from the webfilter entirely. This is actually a reasonably good solution - and may be the "best" solution for roku/appletv/chromecast and other fixed devices that do not regularly leave your network.

    This is NOT the best solution for mobile devices, but it will work. The best solution for mobile devices would be to either FIX the damned web filter (still working on it) or create a separate wireless network for them.
Reply
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray
    Ok, so I won't say "challenge completed" yet - because I cheated to get it working... still working on the webfilter side, but here is one SURE-FIRE way to get it to work while keeping filtering on for the majority of users...

    So we'll say... CHALLENGE PENDING for now - and use this to get it working!

    1) Create a clientless users group
    Objects > Identity > Groups
    Add.
    Enter a group name.
    Group Type: Clientless
    Quarantine Digest: Disable
    Save.

    2) Create Clientless users for each exempt device.
    Objects > Identity > Clientless Users
    Add (or add range, if they are in a specific range)
    Enter a username - something descriptive for the device (ex: ccamp-iphone)
    IP Address: the internal ip address
    Group: The clientless group you created in step 1
    Name: Some name. Descriptive. "My Iphone"
    Email: fake an email address. Next version won't require this.
    Description: More useless description info. Not required.

    Click the plus sign if you need to add additional devices.

    Click save.

    3) Create security policy
    Security Policies
    Click on your HTTPS filter rule, click the plus sign, click "Above (User/Network Rule)"
    About this rule---
    Name: Allow Clientless to Bypass Filter
    Identity---
    Match Rule based on user identity: On
    User or Groups: Clientless Group created in step 1
    Source---
    Zone: Lan
    Networks: Any
    Services: HTTP,HTTPS, others if you need them, but these suffice for this walkthrough
    Destination---
    Zone: WAN
    Networks: Any
    Malware Scanning---
    Scan FTP OFF
    Scan HTTP OFF
    Decrypt & Scan HTTPS OFF

    Save.

    This bypasses the specific clientless devices you created from the webfilter entirely. This is actually a reasonably good solution - and may be the "best" solution for roku/appletv/chromecast and other fixed devices that do not regularly leave your network.

    This is NOT the best solution for mobile devices, but it will work. The best solution for mobile devices would be to either FIX the damned web filter (still working on it) or create a separate wireless network for them.
Children
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    First I would like to say I am grateful for all your hard word on this, I further more agree that Sophos just needs to fix this very old streaming problem, This was a problem in UTM9 as well but at least we could fix it with regex entries and NOT have to completely bypass devices like we do now to get it working. Does none of the Sophos employees have mobile devices and use services such as Netflix? That would be mind blowing if they did not. It seems to me that Sophos does not want anyone using such services if using there product.

    No I mean no harm in what I am about to say & again I am very great full for your hard work but is what you posted not the long-hand way of solving the Netflix problem vs what we are already doing in a short-hand way? The way I solved the Netflix problem is easy, I created a policy for all my mobile devices called streaming devices and I just turned off HTTP and HTTPS scanning and I disabled the web filter and Netflix works. Am I missing something with your way of doing this? Just seems like a lot of extra work with no benefit unless I am missing something?
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray
    The difference is in the reports you get. Your way works - and is the quickest way. My way lets you easily identify the ip addresses with user names/descriptions if/when you run traffic reports. Either works.

    And before we throw Sophos under the bus for their HTTP/S filtering - lets ask ourselves - is any vendor ACTUALLY PRODUCING a true HTTP and HTTPS filter that works *well* with highly advanced streaming services like netflix? The answer is likely no. Netflix in particular is a very odd bird due to the way it streams using direct IP addresses instead of host names that can easily have regex or string comparisons done against them.

    I may open a support ticket on this and see what support says. I may also put my challenge on hold until the new version is released in January/February... see what they fix/change. I don't expect them to FIX it outright, but they very may well change something that either breaks whatever I come up with *OR* fix something else (like regex) that allows me to make things actually work.
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    Thank you for the detailed explanation. That would be great if you could enter a support ticket. I think the more we hound Sophos to get this fixed once and for all the better. I look forward to any updates you may have.

    Thanks again for taking the time...
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp
    Hi ChavousCamp,
    Unrelated to Netflix, Do you know to fix I am having trouble with Windows downloading new Insider builds when the device is behind XG, The only way I can download the new builds is to disable HTTP and HTTPS scanning. When I go into the logs XG does not show anything blocked. What do I have to do to fix this so I don't have to DISABLE HTTP scanning?

    Thanks
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray

    Until they allow multiple regex expressions per single rule this will be a continuing problem. It was brought up multiple times during beta testing and I have already addressed my feelings on that subject so I won't hijack this thread.

    Regarding no blocks showing in logging, refer to this thread https://community.sophos.com/products/xg-firewall/f/46/t/15732 by  

  • 0 in reply to Billybob
    billybob, Thanks for the info. I agree with you 100% but now the million dollar question, Will they fix it? It was said so many times on the beta forum that this product was not ready for prime time but ready or not they role it out anyway. I guess that's the price you pay for early adoption and I am more then willing to hang in there and keep using it as long as they fix things in a timely manor and don't make us wait years. I can only hope that the next update due out in Jan-Feb addresses some of this stuff.
  • 0 in reply to Big Ray
    "Will they fix it" -

    That depends on what you call "fix."

    *FIX* regex by either adding it to policies or making it actually *work* on the web filter screen so someone *can* allow netflix through? Probably. If not in Jan/Feb then at some point soon. Please lets hope, and for reasons other than netflix.

    -OR- do you mean

    *FIX* the XG so that it is easier to allow netflix to get through - doubtful.

    I've seen folks in this thread and elsewhere lambaste Sophos - the XG and UTM product line - that it is too hard to allow certain streaming services and that it breaks x or y when https filtering is enabled. I really don't think folks realize THAT'S BY DESIGN. Lest we forget, this is *NOT* a product explicitly designed for home use. I love the fact that they are giving it away for technophiles and the like to play with at home, but lest we forget - it is primarily designed as a business product. Compare it to every other enterprise-grade web filter... Cisco, Websense, Edgewave's iPrism - you'll be hard-pressed to find one that will *EASILY* allow the netflix video streaming through without exempting the entire device from policy. Lets be clear: this IS NOT the fault of Sophos or the other vendors. It is primarily that 1) nextflix is NOT a business priority, 2) netflix does NOT make it easy to identify their hosts and thus allow them and 3) mobile devices are NOT very friendly to HTTPS filtering due to the certificate issues discussed previously.

    Again - this is NOT a sophos problem. The reason Sophos is getting hammered on it is that they actually encourage home users to use their product. They probably should publish some caveats with that - and some better documentation and better communication, because what they've done is created a bunch of frustrated, upset users. And that is bad and sad.

    I keep repeating this bit about HTTPS filtering and other vendors because I think it is an important security issue.... bypassing this "by design" security by allowing netflix through can have severe consequences. If you take a look at the drashna.net rules for a bit, you may be able to see the security issue... and why I believe his post is called an exercise in futility.

    ANY firewall - XG, SG, etc - that implements those rules effectively blesses every IP address on the entire net, and only filters based on the "filename" portion of the URL. It would be relatively trivial for a piece of malware to mimic the netflix - and similar video sites - url structures in order to bypass filtering, because there is literally no host/domain name checking on it.

    Honestly, based on the URLs I saw going across the wire when I tested - I'm not even sure the drashna rules will work any more - as the URLs I saw in my testing would NOT match those filters... we'll just have to see once Sophos fixes the regex filter.

    I will tell you what an unnamed agent at Sophos support told me:
    He determined - and whitelisted - a hundred or so IP addresses associated with netflix, and that's how HE got it to work at his house.
  • 0 in reply to ChavousCamp

    I agree with you mostly and particularly on the netflix streaming point. Keep in mind though, that netflix stream uses http streaming although SSL is used in combination. However regex is trivial to add and is needed in XG for a lot more than just streaming netflix. As Ray noticed, he is having troubles with microsoft downloads. I am sure sooner or later we will run into apple download issues and the list will go on and on with other device makers that run different OSes. This shouldn't require a complete bypass of firewall http/ssl rules every time for every device. They are pushing cloud infrastructure and then undermining mobile / BYOD devices that will be a part of that infrastructure?

    At home, I use dedicated streaming devices for amazon/ netflix / DirecTV streaming so I have always bypassed webproxy completely even though I had the capability to use regex in UTM. They just act better that way. But it was nice to have the option if I chose to protect them if I wanted to mess with complicated regex.

    I tried XG with open mind and I run multiple firewalls in my lab at home but found it frustrating to use. We techies shouldn't feel frustrated using any appliance and that sums up the shortcomings of XG for me. There is still hope as I found the web browsing performance snappier in XG and if they had released the incoming v1.5 as their initial release, I believe they would have had a lot fewer unhappy users. Lets see what comes in v1.5 so we can gauge the rate of evolution of XG. Keeping my fingers crossed...

  • 0 in reply to Billybob
    sure, netflix may not be a service that a business needs to allow through, but consider it a test case for how well the product supports a tech person trying to accomplish a goal with the product - is there sufficient information in the log to assist with the diagnosis? are the mechanisms provided sufficient to achieve a desired result? Do they behave as advertised, are they predictable and flexible enough for a particular task? many of us have dual lives and to earn our 'yes' vote at work, a home product may do the trick. Or the reverse. I can easily see setting up some cloud service (or hybrid cloud) as causing similar difficulties as netflix. Opportunity is the word, and meeting it by burying one's head in the sand and yelling 'free home product' does not impress me in the least.
  • 0 in reply to Billybob
    Great points by everyone. Now I am excited for the next update.

    Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply...